A Conversation with Kathryn Brewer
Interview conducted and transcribed by Alexandra Blee
This is the second installment of our blog series focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) within our Vanderbilt and Department of Biochemistry communities. Through conversations with trainees, staff, and faculty within our department, we hope to build a culture of curiosity, a willingness to share, and mutual understanding when it comes to both our differences and our shared experiences. I spoke with Ph.D. candidate Kathryn Brewer, a graduate student in the laboratory of Dr. Chuck Sanders and co-author of this blog series.
AB: Hi Kathryn, thank you very much for talking with me today. Would you like to start off by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do here at Vanderbilt?
KB: Sure. My name is Kathryn Brewer. I’m a fourth year PhD candidate in the lab of Chuck Sanders. I work on the KCNQ1 ion channel and how it gets mutated in Long QT syndrome, which is a cardiac arrhythmia disorder.
AB: Great! Could you tell us more about what brought you to Vanderbilt – maybe which program you entered and more background about your interests?
KB: I actually got my undergrad degree in chemistry, but I started doing protein crystallography as an undergraduate researcher. That got me really interested in both structural biology and how proteins fold, and how the structure of proteins can tell us things about disease. When I came to Vanderbilt to interview, Chuck was my very first interviewer. We talked about the KCNQ1 channel during that interview. I thought it was really cool, because as a voltage gated ion channel, this protein can sense the difference in the electrical potential across a membrane and change its protein conformation in response. That’s wicked cool! It stuck with me, and when I decided to come to Vanderbilt for my graduate studies, I went to Chuck for my first rotation. The rest is history.
AB: Are you from the East Coast?
KB: No, I’m not from the East Coast, but I think some things are cool enough that they deserve to be called wicked cool. So that was one of the things that led me here. I came in through the IGP program and joined Chuck’s lab.
AB: I’m sure that keeps you busy, but I’d also be curious to know what you love to do outside of your research and your time in the lab.
KB: I sing for my parish church, and I’ve started doing some substitute singing for other parishes in town if they need a vocalist. I also bake a lot of bread, which my lab can attest is both a good thing and a bad thing because probably once a week they’ll arrive at work and suddenly there’s a whole new batch of carbs sitting on our table in the common space.
AB: At least you bring it in to work to share, because when I bake cookies, bread, cake, whatever, I’m always tempted to eat everything myself!
KB: Well, I could eat an entire loaf of bread in the four days that it will stay good, but that’s not a good idea…
AB: Probably better to bring it to your lab mates! It makes everyone happy! I’d be curious to hear about an interesting, memorable, or recent failure that you’ve had and what you took away from it. Maybe it’s just a funny story that somebody can relate to that would give us a peek into a failure that you’ve experienced?
KB: One of my favorites I’ve made so far was while growing some E. coli to make some protein to purify. For a couple of weeks, my cells just weren’t growing very well. They wouldn’t get up to the right density; it was like they were just refusing to multiply. I was thought, “what the heck is going on here?” I went back through my lab notebook, and I realized that instead of feeding my cells with a 20% glucose stock, I was feeding them with a 2% glucose stock because of a calculation error in making the stock solution. So, my poor cells were starving to death. I feel like the lesson I learned from that was that you’re never too far along to avoid stupid mistakes. Checking your math is for all ages. I don’t care how many times you’ve done a calculation before, always make sure you do it again!
AB: What’s shocking is that there are hundreds of silly lab mistakes that you can make. Luckily most of the time a mistake like that gets burned into your brain and you never make the same one again. But in my experience, there are always hundreds of other mistakes out there! I’m glad you called it your favorite mistake; it’s good to have a positive learning outlook.
KB: It’s funny now. It’s a little humbling and a reminder that you’re never too old to make a silly mistake. It’s important to always pay attention to what you’re doing. It’s hilarious because I didn’t know what was wrong. I spent three weeks trying to figure out why my cells weren’t growing!
AB: Remaking all your buffers, redoing the math, everything, I’m sure!
KB: I did all that, and it still didn’t matter, because my stock solution had an issue. So now, when anything is not working as expected, the first thing I think is “alright, well, what’s the simplest reason for this? The math? Another silly, obvious reason?” Then if it isn’t any of those, I can start interpreting the data differently.
AB: That’s a good takeaway. I want to shift now and talk more about diversity, equity, and inclusion at Vanderbilt. As a student, you come from a different perspective than our last guest. I’d really like to know from a student’s perspective, what changes would you like to see happen here at Vanderbilt, or that you want to participate in to enhance DEI here at Vanderbilt?
KB: My main thought is that having more conversations like ours should be a more normal part of our experience in the department. Specifically, we need to share more about how the different elements of the way we grew up, our cultures, and our personalities influence the way that we see science. Some of the issue is that we don’t spend enough time knowing that for ourselves and understanding how our own backgrounds shape the way we think about our science. I think we don’t spend enough time talking about that openly. The more we understand that we all come from a different baseline and think in different ways as a result can only foster a better environment.
AB: I agree and that would give everyone a bit of common ground. Any one experience might not be shared, but you can at least start to better understand where other people are coming from. Taking in new perspectives and ways of thinking also improves your own research and can give you an appreciation for other people’s science. Is there a specific example or something unique about your background that helps shape your view on science and your own research?
KB: For me, I think about the reason I do what I do and why it’s interesting to me. I am Catholic and believe there is a God who has this particular interaction with the world, and science is an important part of that larger framework that I live in. I approach my science with a unique perspective in light of that. The world we live in, the way we understand it, and the way it was made all have a purpose. It says something about the God that I worship. I don’t just learn cool stuff about a world that happens to exist. I learn cool stuff about a world that was made on purpose and for a purpose. Science and the principles of our natural world have an impact on my life within a bigger context.
AB: That’s an elegant viewpoint and way to communicate it. I haven’t heard many people specifically frame the intersection between science and religion that way. Thank you for sharing your perspective. Was that difficult to come to terms with? I more often hear about the divisions between science and religion than I do your perspective. I’d be interested to hear whether that’s been something you have struggled with and how you bring the two together.
KB: I was lucky in that both my parents are Catholic and they’re also both chemical engineers. When I was growing up, I never saw a disconnect. Something that’s been very helpful for me as a Catholic is that the Catholic Church has a rich intellectual tradition that goes with our faith tradition. When it comes to the classic example of evolution, the Catholic Church has done a really good job at outlining specifically what the Church believes and that evolution is not incongruent with our faith. As a Catholic it’s clear that science and faith can go together, and the Church has outlined where things may become difficult. I’m not off on my own trying to figure out how certain things go together. There is a structure in place that includes intellectual discourse about how we can understand these questions and these problems, and I use that to inform and guide the way I approach science in light of my faith.
AB: That’s a good transition to talking about a challenging aspect of DEI for you, and how you’ve approached that challenge.
KB: There are a lot of miscommunications and misunderstandings about how people of faith view science. There tends to be a bit of equivalence between being a person of faith and being either not educated or anti-science, which is just not true. That’s the biggest challenge for me. As a scientist, I hear little jokes or comments made by people who probably don’t realize they are making fun of others who are in the room with them. So, I don’t always feel like there is an understanding that someone can have a religion and also be intellectually curious, smart, and able to think rationally.
AB: This is so important to hear and why we want to have these conversations in a neutral, calm environment. I think you’re right that many people haven’t heard someone articulate this challenge in this way. It has been eye opening for me, and I hope this will prompt people to open up respectful dialogue rather than make small comments. I’m sure there is room for much more in-depth discussion about this intersection and your experiences and I hope our community feels more comfortable and open-minded in talking about this again. Thank you for sharing.
KB: Of course.
AB: One last thing I want to know is if you have any personal or professional advice for people in the Biochemistry Department and at Vanderbilt as a whole.
KB: I’ve got two thoughts based on what’s going on in my own journey as a scientist right now. First, ask for help early and often. I have a terrible tendency to be too independent and think that I need to figure something out by myself. But that can lead to beating your head against a wall that isn’t necessary. If you ask for help and get support, that allows you to have the security you need to move forward. There’s a difference between being independent and being completely self-reliant and self-sufficient. No one can be entirely self-sufficient.
AB: I agree. Part of being independent and mature is knowing what your limitations are. No one can be truly self-sufficient in every single way. Either being in denial about that or refusing to ask for help when needed can be detrimental to progress, so thanks for that great advice.
KB: The other thing I would say especially for students would be to take time to think about why you want to be in graduate school and what your goals are afterwards. I didn’t do that before I joined the program. Now, that’s something that I’m trying to figure out in the middle of also trying to finish my thesis work. Getting a Ph.D. is hard. It can be extremely challenging to finish if you don’t have a clear goal of what you want to do or provide to society in the end, to remind you why you’re going through something so difficult. It’s definitely a good idea to spend time either thinking about why or maybe realizing that what you actually want doesn’t necessarily align with being in this program. Either of those answers are going to be really important.
AB: I agree. Sometimes you need to dig deep during graduate school, especially when you get past the midway point, and you need something bigger than yourself to keep you motivated when your experiments aren’t working or you’re hitting against one of those walls. Thank you for sharing such great advice! I’m sure many people will be able to relate. And, thank you for your time and willingness to be so open with all of us!
This concludes our conversation. Thinking about all aspects of diversity such as the breadth of personal and religious beliefs within our community is something that I often overlook myself, and I was very appreciative of Kathryn’s willingness to share more about her experience. If you found this conversation meaningful or want to add your own thoughts, please comment below. If you know someone who you would love to hear from, or want to share your own perspectives, email Alexandra Blee at alexandra.blee@vanderbilt.edu.
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